Away from Beijing’s lofty rhetoric about defending Palestinians, Chinese firms are helping to sustain illegal settlements.

  • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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    4 days ago

    Do you want China to be another USA? Because interference with the open market and manipulating other nations with tariffs and sanctions is something China promises not to do unilaterally, unless they are attacked in the same way. Thus, China cannot interfere with normal Chinese-Israeli business. Does that mean construction materials and labour will go to construct things where the Chinese government itself may not want? Sure, but it also means the Chinese will never cut you off unilaterally.

    The only way to change this is to petition the UN for global sanctions. But USA will clearly block anything with help from their allies. China simply refuses to take any market distorting actions, and like it or not, construction is absolutely normal business activity.

      • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        Of course it sucks. As long as the US and it’s allies will continue to block any global action, China cannot make a move or risk reprisal from those nations as well as lose the trust it’s been building up with the global south. It’s nice to imagine China as an all powerful big dog, but in reality China has a lot of weaknesses it has to play around. And on top of that, it’s promise to BRICS and the global south is that China will never play favorites means it can’t act or lose trust. The trust which is tenuously built since China refuses allies.

        The real question you should ask yourself is whether or not China is right and we must move to a multipolar world. If you agree with it and that we should not have a super power hegemon, then sadly blood must be spilled to usher in a new world. And China promises to help construct it no matter who is in charge.

        Now, that all said. My personal opinion is I partly disagree. I don’t think the bloodshed is worth it. I also don’t see another path. It’s clear China had chosen to do this regardless. But that means a lot of wars as the world police goes to sleep. Which sadly means we are going to see a lot more genocides.

        • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          4 days ago

          How much can the contract to send 6000 workers be worth to China? Do they really need the money that bad? They could just not aid the zionist colonialism. Not doing anything would be better than what they are doing. Not even fucking Germany is sending 6000 workers to literally build colonies. I know, they sent weapons instead, which is worse, but still. You can’t frame this as a strategically necessary decision of China. That’s ridiculous.

        • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          4 days ago

          I am not here to say I know better than the CPC leadership, rather that it looks pretty bad to some of those same nations you claim they are trying not to alienate. They simply have no choice but to choose the lesser evil in this case. (not calling the CPC actually evil just a turn of phrase).

          • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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            4 days ago

            Well, neutral means neutral. Sadly, we seem to have lost an understanding of the word in this devisive world. Let me try to use two different conflicts to explain what I mean. Hopefully one of them you’ll be less emotional about one or the other to let you see the neutrality.

            The first one is obviously the Russian Ukraine war. China will not sell to Russia anything it wouldn’t be willing to sell to Ukraine. Regardless of the friendship talks with Russia, China maintains it’s neutrality and continues to supply Ukraine with drones and guidance systems. They even prefer them to US switchblades.

            People argue that Myanmar is a Chinese puppet. However, China has been supplying the revolutionaries with weapons as much as the Myanmar regime. It’s not China’s place to decide which government the people of Myanmar choose. So regardless of the global backlash China gets for not stepping in, China’s response has always been step in for whom? China is no one’s opponent.

            China has been working towards a completely neutral world. They can’t just abandon it because some feel the Gaza conflict is a more worthy cause than all the other ones. Neutral is neutral, good or bad.

            • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              4 days ago

              Nah dawg fuck you and your condescending tone about my “emotions”. Listen to what @woodenghost@hexbear.net said.

              You do not actually need to support sending construction materials to build settlements for a fascist govt. There is absolutely no disadvantage from simply not doing that.

              If anything it damages the image of the PRC on the world stage in a lesser but similar way as does every other nation that provides material aid to a genocidal settler colonial state.

              You are way off the mark here and missing entirely the point of what “critical support” means.

              • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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                4 days ago

                Of course China does. If China does something for one side, it will do the same for the other. Just like in Russia and Ukraine. Should China stop sending aid to Palestine?

                In the beginning

                https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/china-says-provide-2-million-humanitarian-aid-gaza-2023-10-26/

                In the middle

                https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202403/21/content_WS65fb793fc6d0868f4e8e54c8.html

                This year

                https://english.news.cn/20250219/a55206ed362944b49c23f362cee8527f/c.html

                • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  4 days ago

                  Should China stop sending aid to Palestine?

                  No ffs obviously not this is dumbass centrist bullshit wrapped in Marxist aesthetic.

                  • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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                    4 days ago

                    It’s not my bullshit, this is what China stated they want. After all, they are not one to judge what a country is or is not. They only judge themselves. Thus, they cannot change the rules of normal business.

                • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  4 days ago

                  Oh, so with that aid they paid the Palestinians for the stolen land on which they build settlements for fascists? Did the Palestinians agree to hand over this land in exchange for some food packages? No, well than that’s just like aiding a thief and then throwing some pocket change at the helpless victim as they lie on the ground. Wondering how the value of these construction materials and all the work hours compares to the aid.

                  Are you saying they should stop?

                  Ridiculous straw man argument.

                  • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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                    4 days ago

                    China’s rule is they will support both sides regardless of what other say about them. They did it for Russia, they did it for Myanmar. They have to be consistent since every other nation always accuses them of supporting the other side. Imagine if you will if they only supported Russia, how would the EU respond? What about the people of Myanmar if they supported the Myanmar Junta against the protestors?

                    What would their argument to the United States and EU be if they are biased in the Gaza conflict when China didn’t side with them on Russia? How would the people of Cambodia feel if China broke it’s own rules and militarily supported Myanmar? Neutral is neutral. Once you’ve chosen that, you can’t really go back on your word.

            • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              4 days ago

              They aren’t neutral, they send 6000 workers. Did they send the same to the Palestinians? Oh right, they couldn’t afford it.

              I know the meaning of neutral quite well. Neutral means “I work for the one with the most money”. Neutral means complicit. The examples you give are damming in their own right. Reads like a list of war profitieering. I defend China all the time and I’m all for critical support, but seriously, read back to yourself what you just wrote and pretend it’s Switzerland in the second world war selling weapons to the Nazis and the allies, because they care so much about being “neutral”. They aren’t neutral about their bank accounts.

              China has been working towards a completely neutral world. They can’t just abandon it because some feel the Gaza conflict is a more worthy cause than all the other ones. Neutral is neutral, good or bad.

              Read Lenin. Capitalist countries aren’t “neutral” they work together to crush us. We have to work together too. International solidarity is at the heart of Marxist-Leninism. Your ideology is counter-revolutionary. I’m not arguing, I’m teaching. Please self crit.

    • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      China claims to follow international law. Helping build settler colonist projects in the West Bank is in violation of that.

      It’s pretty easy to not do business with Israel by simply adhering to international law.

      China is not just doing the Israeli food-tech investment schtick. They are directly working with the settler colonists.

    • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      4 days ago

      Well there you have it comrades. You heard it here first: aiding genocidal settlers is literally the only way not to become like the US. So everyone better start displacing some natives and aiding in genocide or you’ll become just like the USA who are famous for (checks notes) umm… displacing natives and committing genocide. Sounds weird, but that’s the new line now /s

    • F-Puertas@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      Actually, not doing business with a country is a totally valid choice and has nothing to do with imperialism.

      • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        Actually it’s not for China. That was China’s promise to the world. No matter what happens as long as you don’t block trade from me China will trade with you. They even do this with Taiwan, and believe me, China always keeps it’s word.

        There are countries accused of all sorts of things, yet China will never stop trading. Russia, Iran, North Korea, Belarus, Serbia, Egypt, I could go on. What does this say to BRICS nations if China picked a side. They’re trapped by their own promise. But it’s one that keeps them consistent regardless of how the world turns.

        • F-Puertas@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          You’re telling me that if was Nazi Germany, China would be doing trade with it. And you call that country socialist?

          • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            You think you have a gotcha, but you’re actually about to unveil a very hard truth of why China is always neutral. Yes, China would trade with the Nazis, or more accurately did. And in return, they protected 250,000 Chinese from the Japanese.

            https://allthatsinteresting.com/john-rabe-alexander-von-falkenhausen

            One nations opponent is not another nations. It’s not for China to decide who is right or wrong. Thus as China always says, China is not a party to this conflict.

            • F-Puertas@lemmy.ml
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              2 days ago

              You’re literally comparing Chiang Kai-shek politics to the supposed anti-imperialist character of the actual, supposed heir of the men and women who fought Chiang Kai-shek, chinese diplomacy, by doing business with the nazis of today, without it being to save a single chinese, btw. But you’re right in something, is not for China or other country to decide who is right or wrong, is for the people of the world. And the blood of any human should boil by knowing what “israel” is and what it’s doing to the Palestinian People for over 70 years. You are basically saying that Marx was wrong when he condemned English colonialism in Ireland, or when he was outraged by the murder of Abraham Lincoln. By your metrics, the founding of the Comintern by the Soviets was an imperialist act. You should read some fucking Lenin or stfu about imperialism.

              • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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                2 days ago

                Your either intentionally missing the point or really do not understand what I am saying. This isn’t political, or economical for China. It’s not about trade or power. It’s simply China keeping it’s promise that it cannot make any unilateral decisions unless China is directly involved.

                So your options are either China stays neutral or China takes a stand on a conflict they are not a party to, which literally makes them follow in the footsteps of USA.

        • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          While a full boycott on Israel would be very based, the demand here is that China stops aiding Israel in its genocide. China already banned drone exports to Ukraine and Russia. They have applied red lines to trade already.

          • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            Yes exactly, China banned drones for Ukraine AND Russia. Neutral is neutral. As I asked others before, would you like China to stop all the aid to Palestine?